Some of you may remember the interview with a niqab wearing lady I posted a few months ago. Last week on Monday, the Times 2 supplement contained another juicy article and I’ve posted it here for you to get your teeth stuck into:
The article, which featured on a double page spread, is a very interesting read and raises a lot of issues.
Click on the files to download
If you are a Muslim woman or girl, to what extent do you agree with some of the comments made by Shaista Gohir? Has Islam really become a patriarchal faith dominated by men?
..."The preachy police - you know, these young men who think they are the moral police. They go around judging other Muslims. They are becoming quite arrogant. What irritates me about them is that they have reduced Islam to a few sets of rituals and the dress code - but Islam is much more than that. It is about how you treat other people; it is about respect, justice and tolerance. So the preachy police will pull out verses on dress but ignore the ones on being good to your neighbour, or being peaceful. They have reduced Islam to a piece of cloth."
*****
Feel free to leave your thoughts in a comment, and feel free to discuss amongst yourselves.
[This is a scheduled post]
Disclaimer:
All views mentioned in external articles belong to their respective writers and are by no means my own.
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Title: Alice – Avril Lavigne
All scanned images were taken from the Times2 supplement included inside the Times on the 21st March 2011.
Posts
26 March 2011 at 20:34
hmm she has interesting views. Some of what she said I could understand but some I just think is plain wrong. She said she points out the right place in the quran for people when they ask her questions yet she says that she doesn't agree to the veil so whatever happened to verses 24:30–31 and 33:58–59. Some of it is hypocritical/stereotypes or so it seems to me. As for whether its become a patriarchal faith dominated by men No. Its never been dominated by men and never will be. It's the religion of God not men. The religion hasn't changed its people who try to make it look like its changed or try to change it. We all as Muslims have a duty to educating ourselves whether male or female. I think if you are told something about religion that doesn't make sense to you then look it up, read, educate your self, thats your right and duty.
26 March 2011 at 22:03
You know my thoughts on this! It was a pretty interesting read thu! Im sure your readers will have truck loads to comment on!
:)
x
27 March 2011 at 00:07
I know I should write my own opinion about this but I pretty much second Amira's comment! :)
27 March 2011 at 00:14
I was discussing religion with a friend a few days back, and I said to him, "You get 2 types of people. Those that see rationality, and base their beliefs on that. And the other group have beliefs and find rationale to fit their beliefs".
Would you say this is one of those cases?
27 March 2011 at 00:55
Assalaam Alaikum Nas,
Interesting article, thanks for sharing! =)
(Please be warned this will be a lengthy comment, lol)
While I agree there's a certain degree of validity to her claims, I disagree with the gist of her message about how Islam seems to be a patriarchal male dominated faith. With the advent of Islam, it was (and is) the first religion that has given an unprecedented amount of rights to women. SubhanAllah, in Pagan Arabia females had been stripped the very right to live through female infanticide and Islam prohibited such a barbaric practice. Not only did women at that time have greater rights than their Western counterparts, Islam gave rise to female scholarship as well. Mrs. Gohir is right in saying that women in Islamic history were once the shapers of law and this is a trend that shows to be on the decline. I remember reading of how Ibn Taymiyyah's niece Zainab had granted ijazas (certification) to the likes of famous scholars such as Ibn Hajar, the Grandmaster Hadith (may Allah have mercy on him). Unfortunately, I believe we're in a time where Islamic scholarship overall is severely suffering and it's extremely difficult to distinguish authentic scholars from those spreading misguiding information. For example, the Imam Mrs. Gohir had a disagreement with should have been doing his homework and known that in fact the Hadith he quoted is Sahih (authentic), not Da'eef (weak), however the beauty in Islam is that there's a reasonable explanation for everything.
One of reasons why there will be a greater number of women as inhabitants in Jahannam is because statistically, over time, the number of women on earth will increase. This can already be seen through the steadily rising ratio between males to females throughout many parts of the world, hence the same will be true of the inhabitants of Jannah – there will be a greater number of women. This is also based upon a Hadith of the Prophet (sallAllahu 'alayhi wa sallam) in which he told us that each male in Jannah will have two wives.
I think the following article explains the best: http://www.defending-islam.com/page231.html
And here's an excerpt of two scholarly views on it:
"The women could be more in Jahannam and less in Jannah at the beginning. Thereafter, when they are cleansed of their sins or when intercession on their behalf is accepted, they would be entered into Jannah and they would outnumber the men there too."
(Fath al-Baari vol.6 pg.401; Hadith3246 – Sifatul Jannah of Hafiz ibn Katheer pg.130)
"The Ahaadith that indicate the women as the major inhabitants of Jahannam refer to that time when Rasulullah [Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam] had physically seen Jannah and Jahannam. They do not mention that it will always remain like that.
(Faydhul Baari and Malfoozaat-e-Kashmiri vol.4 pg.244)
27 March 2011 at 00:56
I'm so sorry for digressing but I just wanted to share the above.
Anyway, Islam definitely goes beyond the dress code and ritual worship, but I think rather than criticizing certain tenants within it, which is treading dangerous ground, we need to take a more educational approach in our centers of learning (i.e. masajid, Islamic schools, and so forth). It's the logical fallacy 'Progressive Muslims' in deeming what may or may not be permissible that only leads to further corruption of our beautiful faith.
As narrated by the Prophet (sallAllahu 'alayhi wa sallam)
"...Both legal and illegal things are obvious, and in between them are (suspicious) doubtful matters. So who-ever forsakes those doubtful things lest he may commit a sin, will definitely avoid what is clearly illegal; and who-ever indulges in these (suspicious) doubtful things bravely, is likely to commit what is clearly illegal. Sins are Allah's Hima (i.e. private pasture) and whoever pastures (his sheep) near it, is likely to get in it at any moment."
[Narrated An-Nu'man bin Bashir, Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 34, Number 267]
I just realized my two comments (it really should have been one) could almost be a post, lol. So sorry Nas!
27 March 2011 at 02:06
BTW, my addressing the Hadith was just a side note. The point I'm trying to emphasize is that before anyone starts taking on the role of a scholar and essentially using personal interpretations the Qur'an, we need to thoroughly educate ourselves and research an issue to the best of our abilities. It's our duty as Muslims to uphold justice and the rights that we have over one another, the rights Allah has over us, and the rights we have over Him.
Whew! Now I can finally say I hope you're having a nice weekend too Nas. =)
27 March 2011 at 05:32
I get where she say's it seems to be dominated by men. During the prophet peace be upon him's time it was a free for all. Women are equal to men. No one was better than anyone except in faith. But ofcourse men do/did more. I don't see how that's a sense of superiority. Men are doing the dirty work for us :P But it slowly became more male dominated. I agree with that. I believe because of a cultural context not because religion says so. I like that she's being honest about what goes on in our society. We are almost just as bad as everyone else but we want to hide it from people. I mean if we are ashamed of what goes on in our community DONT DO IT! I always get a bit uncomfortable when taboo subjects are talked about. But I am eager to listen to it. I once attended a lecture where one of the topics brought up was the addiction to masturbation and what to do about it. People benefited from it because the speaker was open about it (Dr. Yasir Fazagha) it but the tension was thick. On the other hand. I did find it a bit weird that she disagreed with the Hijab but I liked that she argued women had the right to wear it. It shows that she set aside her personal beliefs. But I agree with Amiira and I think she's doing what you said in your discussion with your friend. BUT BUT BUT BUT!!! I did not *judge* her based on her outter appearance. Essentially a hijab is just a hijab. (Unless we're talking the root meaning of hijab) it doesn't make or break a person (to an extent). had she covered up or not covered up her message is still the same. I guess she'd be more "legalized" had she been covered up.
27 March 2011 at 05:59
very random but I found out what soor was. LOL wthhhhhhhh. Haha "when was the last time I had soor" LLOLLL!
27 March 2011 at 09:30
Um...this is surely the most controversial and most debated upon topic in the west and my personal Paradigm is that its the women's decision to wear Hijab or not.No one can't make her wear or remove her Hijab.
Forcing to wear or to not wear in violation of Human rights.Islam advices NOT forces women to be veiled.
27 March 2011 at 10:59
This is an article too serious and my brain is mere a child in front of all you people. =)
I don't second or third Lady Gohir, at all. Muslims the world over are not following Islam in one defined way. We have a a lot of controversies, interpretations, and misunderstandings going on. If she claims that some young men have limitised Islam to a piece of clothing, then it's not the case here in Pakistan? And I am sure in not most of the other parts of the world too. Shari'ah gives a simple and basic coding of life. It has to be, HAS TO BE, followed the way it is. We can not eliminate the hijab part and move on to the etiquette part. It has to be followed as a whole. Totton main nahi =P
Pehli hadith, and pehli ayat pakar lou and start following it. Then second, then third, and so on. Upni marzi ki toh eliminate nahi ki jaskti. Na hi logon ke attitude ki waja se. Allah understands the human rights best and so, He sent down the manual (Quran) for us to follow and preserve our rights. Not our brains which are prone to fitnas, nafs, and shaitan. That's all I gotta say.
May Allah grant hidayah to us all. Ameen.
27 March 2011 at 13:01
I liked & agreed with some parts of this article- such as her encouraging young women to go into higher education etc, and to actually read the Qur'an and gain knowledge for themselves rather than believing everything they are taught. But sometimes, the whole point of faith is that you believe something without questioning. I think the idea of questioning why we have to do something is to do with the fact that we live in a Western society. The West likes to question everything, and due to that, they ask tonnes of questions to Muslims about all kinds of issues, which has forced us to question them to, to come up with answers to satisfy them.
I think she has got the wrong end of the stick in terms of Women's rights though. Like someone else mentioned, Islam was established in an era where baby girls were being buried alive. It came to give Women the rights they desperately needed. But of course, these rights under Shariah Law can get exaggerated and misinterpreted as barbaric.
It's interesting that she mentioned her husband is more religious than her, and that he probably doesn't agree with her views.. I wonder why!
And I know what she means when she says young men have made Islam into just about a piece of cloth- especially from the Taliban in Afghanistan, but I think the world as a whole has reduced Islam to Hijab. After all, it is what identifies a woman as being Muslim, and they think it makes her "oppressed" and cannot fathom the idea of a covered woman, when their Nuns do the same. It is a pity, since Islam is much more than just hijab.
Just want to leave you with this thought, it's a hadith I read recently. I can't remember it exactly but it was something along the lines of:
"every religion or culture has its characteristic that defines it, and Islam's characteristic is Modesty."
(sorry for the uber-long comment)
27 March 2011 at 20:58
I'm so sick and tired of everyone trying to tell everyone else what to do and how they should live... it's become the single biggest epidemic in Islam and is the negative driving force that taints this beautiful religion. The entire world would be a better place if everyone could worry about what they're doing... what kind of people they are and work towards becoming better people instead of pointing fingers at everyone else. So many wake up calls needed...
27 March 2011 at 21:30
Assalamu Alaikum all,
Jazakallah to all of you for your comments.
@ Amira: There is never a problem with religion itself in my opinion. As time goes on, those practising the faith get caught up in side issues that they deviate on a tangent which really doesn't do anyone any good.
Let me give you an example, I attended a lecture once a few years back where one of the audience members asked "What fruit did prophet Adam (as) eat to get kicked out of paradise?" For the next 30 minutes they debated whether it was an apple or wheat. Surely they didn't realise that the moral of the story, as it were, was not the fruit itself but the act of disobedience of Allah's command. Thus, though I do not fully agree with her comment regarding clothing, I can understand what she means when she refers to Islam being reduced to a piece of cloth. If you see what I mean?
@ All: Many of you mentioned the importance of the hijab and it's role in modesty and protection of a woman's beauty. Wearing the hijab is a good thing, but I do think understanding why one has to wear it and what it means is more important. I once saw a girl wearing a hijab, caked in make up and wearing a mini-skirt with her legs showing. Surely that defeats the point of wearing the hijab?
You are all right in citing the fact that Islam gave more rights to women than anyone could imagine at the time. However in some of today's societies, the opposite is seen. I mentioned in one of my previous posts that a group of people / faith is judged by those who practice it. We are all ambassadors of Islam. People that do not believe in it don't have time to thoroughly study it from the Qur'an and hadith. They will base their initial impressions on what they see and hear from you and I (and the 10 o'clock news).
@ Hamza: You're right, the Holy Qur'an states 'there is no compulsion in religion'. And instructs us to remind others. What people do after that is up to them.
@ Sara: Jazakallah for your lovely long comment! I agree with all you have said in your comment. But one thing I have noticed is that people use religion like a pick n' mix thing (which is what Aeesha also mentioned). You mentioned the hadith about the increasing numbers of women in hell and gave a brief reasoning behind it. Other people use the same hadith and say women are the root cause of evil, which is why there will more of them in hell.
You see what I am saying? For whatever reason, people are willing to twist words and meanings to suit their own beliefs and thoughts (as Shaista Gohir has done too).
27 March 2011 at 21:31
@ рεяfεcтℓγ▪ιмpзяfзcт & hijabi hippie hypo: I note you both have different views on questioning. Blind faith as it were can only come when one understands what it is they believe in and why they believe in it. Prayer is my favourite example. If a person prays because they 'have to' as opposed to them 'wanting to' because they know all the benefits of it, then they will never be heartedly able to derive maximum benefit from their prayers. When a child for example asks a question and you tell them 'dont worry, it doesn't matter', the child is bound to think either that you don't know, you're hiding something or there's a flaw in the whole thing. So personally, in my opinion asking questions is a good thing. As you find answers and are left nodding your head in agreement, your faith is more likely to be blinded then. If you can't even get your head round the basic and fundamental aspects, how can you be expected to keep the faith in the times where it is being stretched thin? On the otherhand I am reminded of the story of Bani Isra'eel and the cow. Pointless questioning is counter productive.
@ Azra: I agree with you. Finger pointing occurs a lot these days and people should remember that you can't tell others to stop smoking when you yourself smoke 20 a day (they'd think of you as a joke). But when you see something wrong, you should remind, should you not?
@ All: Don't worry about long comments. It's fineeee :).
27 March 2011 at 22:36
salam Nas,
new reader here. seems like a pretty cool blog and interesting discussion going on.
i don't know much about that hadith on women being more in hellfire or something, but it seems to me that somebody's gotta be in a larger number, either men or women. it's probably just chance that there are more women or whatever, if the hadith is correct. if by chance there were more bad men in the world, the hadith would have said there were more men in hellfire i guess. besides, i dont think it matters much, since islam isn't really like a collectivist way of thinking. people are judged individually, not whether they are part of the female or male group. if there is some male or female who are doing the same good deeds and bad deeds, they will be judged equally.
also, in the article, she is quoted as saying that people reduce islam to just wearing a cloth or something. i guess that's right, in that modesty is not just about if you wear a hijab or like a beard or something. it's about like lowering the gaze, your behavior, what you think about, etc. but the same could be said about anything else too. like some people make charity about just filling out a form to pay 2.5% each year like a ritual, just like the ritual of wearing a veil or something, so i dont think we should just single out the simplifying down of modesty to wearing a hijab as opposed to the simplification of other things as well.
I don't really know about the whole patriarchy question, but i would just say that there are different types of patriarchy. like there's the type that says that women are like of less value and are inferior to men and should be oppressed and stuff. then there's the other kind of patriarchy which is like men getting up to give ladies a seat on the subway. i think its important to distinguish between the two types to have a discussion about it, and i think in the article they're all just lumped together it seems.
anyway, this is just one bro's opinion. later guys
28 March 2011 at 01:18
Nas – I completely agree with your point in addressing Muslims who pick and choose which parts of Islam to adhere to. That's wrong as well and, as you mentioned, equivalent to Shaista Gohir's using personal interpretations of what she deems may be right or wrong in Islam. This is why I emphasize that it's crucial as Muslims for us to further our understanding of the Qur'an & Sunnah rather than take what is written or said at face value.
I remember a few months ago my brother attended a lecture in which the scholar stated that although it's wonderful Muslims young and old alike are refreshing their knowledge of the deen by brushing up on Qur'an & Ahadith, it's equally important to understand the tafsir and context of what is written via scholarly works rather than citing and applying what is read or heard without depth of knowledge. The Qur'an is a book for people of understanding and awareness. The Sunnah doesn't only mandate that we adhere to rituals and outer dress, but that we purify our souls with the remembrance of Allah, and emulate the great example of the Prophet (sallAllahu 'alayhi wa sallam).
Alhumdulillah, in places such as the U.K., North America, and even Muslim majority countries like Pakistan, Malaysia and so forth people have the resources to seek knowledge and benefit from learned scholars and academics. It is unfortunate however, that in the greater Middle Eastern Muslim nations authentic scholarship is lacking or suppressed by the secular regimes that govern these countries. In order to rid ourselves of political terrorism and erase the rampant cultural norms that dilute the teachings of Islam we actually need to return to true Islam.
28 March 2011 at 02:22
@Nas - Yeah you pretty much summed up what I was thinking especially with the cow and the people of musa. If it makes sense then nod your head but other than that I firmly believe questioning something you don't understand is a must. But it should be sincere questioning not out of arrogance. Yeah :)
28 March 2011 at 11:32
I went to ur other post - the one which u posted pictures from the interview with a burka lady and it was nice! I have some friends who wear burka and ive seen them eat, its kinda fascinating =o
=)
Well i dunno what islam has become.. i think it is pretty much the same - just ignore what people make it and follow ur heart, read the Quran and figure it out ur self.
28 March 2011 at 16:30
hmm you pretty much know what I think. I dont understand how she's the most feminist Muslim in Britain- but the one's that shout the loudest get heard!
Perhaps if she wore hijab then you could say she's standing up for British Muslim women. but even if she did, I wouldnt say she represents the "voice" of the majority today.
Obviously I dont agree that Islam has been hijacked by men & its been reduced to clothing (but a lot of imaams pre-occupy their time debating what is proper hijab & if women should or shouldnt wear western clothes or wear abayas instead). This reminds me about the "Arabization of Islam" which is another point in itself.
Partly the cultures of parents/ elders is to blame because Islam does not oppress women.
29 March 2011 at 21:18
something on my blog for u. =)
1 April 2011 at 02:13
i dnt think the focus shld be on the way a woman dresses as long as she doesnt dress in a promiscuous way. The focus shld be on being a good muslim and living a holy life. Wearing jihab's wont take u to heaven(or the muslim equivalent).
1 April 2011 at 17:15
This is probably the most infantile comment here but it really ruffles my feathers when people go on about how women should cover up and dress in a particular way and not expose their ankles and cover every single strand of hair so as not to "arouse" men but nobody says a word about the men who get turned on by ankles and strands of hair. Seriously, maybe those guys need to turn down the crazy. I'm just saying.....
2 April 2011 at 10:26
@ Sana Castellano: Thanks for the visit and the AWESOME Award :D.
2 April 2011 at 10:27
@ Kitkat: I totally agree with you. Covering your head with a piece of cloth will mean nothing unless you understand the reason behind it and what it means. Thank you very much for visiting!
:)
2 April 2011 at 10:28
@ Sady: Infantile?! No way. You have raised a very very important point. Guys seem to 'get away' with a lot, be it getting turned on by a peek of flesh or a strand of it. It's so not right. I totally agree with you. Thank you!
:)
2 April 2011 at 15:16
Err. Absolutely no reply to me? Die, satya nas!
2 April 2011 at 15:32
@ Aeesha: I mentioned you in one of my replies, but I apologise for not having done so directly. That night when I did the replies I did a lot of them together, and addressed people by topic. I apologise if this caused you an offence.
Btw, there'll be something for you on my blog, later today hopefully. Keep an eye out ;)
2 April 2011 at 22:44
Oh no it didn't offend me at all. C'mon. =D But thank you for apologizing and making it up to me. =P Hah. You're awesome.
10 April 2011 at 04:26
Since first hearing about the proposed law in France banning women from wearing a burka/full veil in public, I've been really intrigued by the difference in opinions of female Muslims on that subject and many others.
Thanks for sharing this article.